單場比賽疲勞 vs 長期疲勞

Zolininkas kaip ir pranešėme anksčiau, bus 2 vietoj 3. -- 90 賽季 37 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

3.4 3.4 efkaefka

18 min sužaidžia ir dėl nuovargio nebepažaidžia. Dar viena nesąmonė -- 90 賽季 37 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

If the goal was to reduce the number of small teams, why link tiredness to team size? Right now it feels like you're trying to treat the symptoms and not the source.
People complain that tiredness shouldn't cause mistakes, and this would be true for just being normally tired. But if someone is at 100% tiredness it insinuates that they're dragging themselves along the floor and are completely exhausted.
100% tiredness should absolutely cause all kinds of mistakes. But the players it should be applied to needs to be re-evaluated. For example, you could establish a base line of number of players with equal playing time and have tiredness relate to that on an exponential scale. So the smaller the team is, the worse the base effect. Then, after that, allow for tactics and other settings to influence the rate of tiredness. -- 90 賽季 37 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

I meant to say "Why NOT link tiredness to team size?" -- 90 賽季 37 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

Y 1 fourkings

It is necessary to point out that players should not be "unprepared" on the first day of the season. As professional players, they should be ready. This "unprepared" state has a great probability of reducing the health value of players, which is even more inappropriate. -- 90 賽季 38 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

Y 1 fourkings

In addition, as far as I know, the normal rotation of players in the NBA club is between 8 and 10 players. If it is a playoff team, they are likely to play more than 100 games each season. However, when they are in a healthy state, they do not show obvious fatigue effects. Therefore, this modification is not necessarily very close to reality. Of course, I respect reform, but I don't agree with it. -- 90 賽季 38 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

TheWizardKs

I would prefer being able to adjust the training time like the old way. Having to balance play time when sometimes the player only plays 10 mins and other times 28 is very much more tedious. -- 90 賽季 38 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

kip88363

dwyane3

a-darius I know it was a good change that players have sevseral random degrees of preparedness, but the range of these differences are too large. Some of players only need 1 or 2 games to get excellent shape, and the others in same team could probably need over 5~8 games. It restricts the tactics we could choose for the games in the first two weeks and increases some uncertainty about the game results and ranking. As a website manager game player, I think no one would accept that possibility affects the game so much. -- 90 賽季 38 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

kip88363

*several random degrees of preparedness in the beginning of new season -- 90 賽季 38 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

4.2 4.4 Formatas

Arba įvesti naują įgūdį - ištvermė. Realybėje yra daug žaidėjų, kurie gali žaisti ilgai bei aktyviai. Kiti po penkių minučių aikštelėje prašosi keitimo. Be to kaip kažkas jau sakė, pasiekus 100% žaidėjas turėtų praktiškai tik būti aikštelėje, o ne bandyti bėgti į greitas atakas. -- 90 賽季 38 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

Jonava play 6-7 man roster and is 3rd in LKL. Also they do not have very good 6-7 man rosters like somebody could have in this game for example in 4-5wl. So people who say it is unrealistic to win with small roaster in real life you need to think twice -- 90 賽季 38 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

Pizius Lekavičius ištvermės neturi.. -- 90 賽季 38 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

efkaefka would you please share the example of a case like that?

elprof as Darius has stated in the article, the community did not like that tired players make a lot of turnovers and gave us a number of examples why it should be that way, therefore we made further changes introducing long-term tiredness. Could you please elaborate what do you mean by this "you could establish a base line of number of players with equal playing time and have tiredness relate to that on an exponential scale"? If a team has 12 player and 5 of them play 40 minutes how would the tiredness work different compared to a team that has 7 players and 5 of them play 40 minutes?

fourkings

kip88363 yes, we want the players to start the season in different shapes and we want users to have more influence on that. We will work on it.

TheWizardKs as long as I am aware, the players can get up to 89% tiredness in a game this season and their shape does not change. That is certainly manageable as we discussed previously.

superdzonis We'll see how they do at the end of the season. In a way, that's the way our game work right now - players can play in a similar level if they get tired in a single game, however, as that tiredness accumulates over the season, it will have a negative effect at the end of the season, if not managed correctly. -- 90 賽季 38 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

Y 4 superdzonis

to be honest it does not matter how they end season, cuz in this game people who have small roasters usually have in that roaster great players (comparing to that league players). In this case Jonava playing small roaster and avarege players at best. -- 90 賽季 38 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

2.1 2.1 Šabas

superdzonis bet su geriausiu treneriuku ir lašinių paltim kuri duoda enrigijos kaip popajaus špinatai -- 90 賽季 38 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

Y 4 superdzonis

nu su situo jau nepasigincysi, nebent kokios NBA statistikos surast reiktu -- 90 賽季 38 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

2.1 3.2 fourkings

Innovation is not arbitrary. No professional league in the world will let players start the new season in this state. -- 90 賽季 38 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

dwyane3 You first start with an intended team size that you decide. Personally I like to adhere to 10 players, giving me at least a dedicated bench player for each position. So say a size of 10 equals to a tiredness rate of 0.5. In this game 7 players is the minimum, so it equals a tiredness rate corresponding to maximum, so 1. I chose these numbers randomly, but better criteria can be applied to them in practice.

But this would mean that if those two teams had the same tactics and the players that played 40 minutes were the exact same age and shape, the players on the small team would get tired twice as fast. Then from the basic tiredness rate set by team size, tactics and age and other things can play their role.

This is just an example, you can freely choose the maximum and minimum as long as team size plays a part in the outcome. The maximum and minimum chosen can then lead to a simple equation that can calculate tiredness rate for other team sizes. -- 90 賽季 38 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

Does not sound logic what player from small team should get tired faster than a player from big team :D more played minutes is the key which give more tiredness... for example first quater both team players play 6 minutes. You suggest what after these 6 minutes player from big team should be tired less? where is the logic? -- 90 賽季 38 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

I think 7 players teams must have bad decisions when playing. Because in training you can’t have quality drills on tactics without full team. 5 vs 3 when training? You can’t play good if your team not full. Not about tiredness should be worries. Teams with 7 players on their roster should play like teams without couch. -- 90 賽季 38 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

If not this, then tiredness needs to have actual tangible effects. Right now tiredness is completely useless. The one aspect that could have made it useful, which is to have tired players make noticeably more mistakes, is met with bad reactions by the community. I don't want my properly sized team to be impacted with more tiredness because some other people are choosing to play small teams, which is exactly what's happening if tiredness is increased for everyone equally.

Either tiredness needs to kick in sooner for smaller teams/players who play more minutes or the effect of it needs to be made more severe. I just presented one way to get it done. Sure, I admit, it's a bit unrealistic, but this isn't real life basketball either and I'd rather have a balanced game than adhere to realism. -- 90 賽季 38 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

Sorry for double post. Saltalankis makes a really good suggestion too. Maybe not so bad as a team without a coach, but that sounds realistic and could get the job done. -- 90 賽季 38 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

3.4 3.3 andriuss

聯盟志工或管理員隱藏的新聞訊息 -- 90 賽季 38 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

Gerbiu andreli uz sitai. Neturit teises mutint -- 90 賽季 38 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

Jūs už sezoną kompensacijas paruoškit. Jei jau prabuvom bandomasiais triušiais, tai man tiek kiek sezono pradžioj finansus padarykite. Nu visiems išskyrus save -- 90 賽季 38 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

One match Is made of 200 minutes. If you want to see 10 player rosters then simply give tiredness points to all the players that play more than 20 minutes, and rest points to those that play less than 20, so that a coach can
aleays decide to play an important match with 7 players, then make them rest and recover in the following ones. If you calibrate this in the proper way, you can make players get tired after 2-3 consecutive 40' matches or after 4-6 consecutive 30' matches, for example. This is how long term tiredness should work... But every coach should be able to see the state of tiredness of every player in any moment, to be able to intervene on the amount of played minutes. -- 90 賽季 39 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

2.1 3.2 fourkings

match.However, this version was strongly criticised by the community. It was pointed out that players should not start making mistakes and be completely terrible just because they are tired.
The community also pointed out that in the real world teams often play important matches with very short rotation and these players even at the end of the matches can still play at a high level.

A person who has been in contact with sports will not have this idea. After a period of intensive exercise, the human body will suffer from hypoxia in its brain, and its muscles will become inflexible due to the accumulation of lactic acid. The probability of making mistakes is far greater than when it is full of energy. If you modify the engine according to the ideas of laymen, you can only say that you are not an expert. -- 90 賽季 39 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

Maybe I missed it, but has it ever been described if and how shape and tiredness affect national team games? -- 90 賽季 39 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

elprof I think that you suggest to have pretty much what we have at the moments and add an impact of a team size to the calculation of the tiredness. I do not think it would be beneficial for the game for the reasons superdzonis mentioned. Long-term tiredness is barely noticable in the game at the moment and it's effect will be increased next season and we will how that works out.

Rolas it is a level playing field for every single user of the game.

Nephasto you have described pretty much what we are doing right now. We have given the points interval of the perfect shape (40-70 points) and by tracking the training reports the managers may track what is the condition of their players.

fourkings yes, that is why we have tiredness events in the game.

Lipinski NT games does not affect players at all. -- 90 賽季 39 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

1.1 2.1 fanling3

dwyane3 Any chance we can see the exact shape value? It would be more user friendly so that I don't need to track the shape value everyday. Otherwise I won't know when it will turn red until it changes -- 90 賽季 39 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

fanling3 that may a future feature of Premium package. -- 90 賽季 39 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

*may be -- 90 賽季 39 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

dwayne3 I know that NT games doesn't affect players.
I meant it from the other side.
Does poor shape or tiredness of the players as they are currently have an influence in the NT games? -- 90 賽季 39 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

3.4 3.3 a-darius

Lipinski: Yes. The match engine works the same as in world leagues -- 90 賽季 39 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

2.1 3.2 fourkings

dwyane3

I agree with you on this point. Since the game has set up a fatigue system, you should let the tired players perform less well than the energetic players on the court, otherwise the fatigue is meaningless. But in your imagination, the player is really like a weak and sickly child who is easily tired. I saw that you mentioned the statistics of European League or NBA in some previous news. Then, I believe you should also know that the NBA and the European League usually do not have 12 players rotating. The reason why their club has 15 players registered is more to consider the impact of injuries and internal training. A normal team usually rotates 8 players, and a little more than 10 players. Because there won't be so many players who can adapt to high intensity games. Dirk Nowitzki played more than 30 minutes in the NBA, and even 35 minutes or more in his peak period. The legendary Lithuanian center Arvydas Sabonis became an NBA player when he was 31 years old. At the age of 36, he still played 25 minutes in every game of Portland Trailblazers. Even in the season before his retirement, he still played 21 minutes in every game. However, our players, under the conditions of high intensity and fast tempo competition, were exhausted after only playing for 18 minutes. I think the players in the current game engine should get the title of "Sick Man of Central Asia". -- 90 賽季 39 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

1.1 2.1 fanling3

I totally disagree

The reduced tiredness impact to single game is exactly solving the problem you mention: Even old players are possible to play 40 minutes in an important game, without making huge amount of turnovers. But you cannot do this in the whole season because those old players will get tired even earlier and have more chance to make mistakes because of bad shape

The key point of long term tiredness is to open up a new opportunity, allowing managers to have rotation. You can have 12 players without worrying 1 or 2 of them being a weakness of your team because you don't need to put all of them into the rosters every game. It's all about your management strategy and tactical strategy -- 90 賽季 39 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

I am playing other basketball manager which in my opinion have really great tiredness system. In that manager in every game you can select game importance from very low to very important. More heavy importance you use more players season tiredness become. Every player in that game gave game and season tiredness. Of course played minutes counts in it. -- 90 賽季 39 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

Tai todėl iš sakau kad visiems, bet ne sau. Žaidėjai pirkti pagal praejusiu sezonų statistika. Aš žemoje lygoj, man neįdomu jūsų ten 1-2 lygu istorijos. Pirkta normalus 4 lygos žaidėjai, visi iki vieno trigubai blogų dalykų daugiau daro, gerų dvigubai mažiau. Nu ir įrodyk tu man kad ne per tavo statistikas man finansai be tolko iki nulio eina -- 90 賽季 39 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

Pas tave Rolai tik 5 žaidėjai virš 200vk ir verki, kad per pirmą sezoną į wl4 nepateksi. Kodėl kitų žmonių "normalūs 4 lygos žaidėjai" žaidžia geriau nei taviškiai? -- 90 賽季 39 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

Kalakalai, kurioj vietoj aš apie save išskirtinai kalbu? Kuris mano žaidėjas yra žaidęs 4 lygoj. Aš remiuosi statistika aplamai 5 lygu komandų. Niekur aš nesiruošiu eiti, ruošiuosi aplamai išeiti. Tik kad "zapadlo" napadryti laikau kol pasiskolintas žaidėjas yra, nebent pats parašys kad nesvarbu. O tau jei viskas gerai, nu šaunu vienas iš nedaugelio būsi.
Esmė ta kad žaidime demokratijos nulis, ką nusprendė du bokštai taip ir bus, kaip pvz klaidų statistika sugadinti greitai sugebėjo, pusę sezono gimdo kažką, piešia kažkokius grafikus, nu bet nieko panašaus.
Žodžiu visi teisus tik kažkas teiseni, ir labai panašu kad ignoruojantys kitus. Kaip koncervatoriai kokie -- 90 賽季 39 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

Rolas we have explicitly stated that changes related to tiredness were made after consulting our community. We cannot make everyone happy, I am sorry about that.

When you say that you have bought 4WL players that make three times more negative things and half the good, can you be more specific, please? -- 90 賽季 39 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

Rolai pats sakei, kad tavo 4 lygos žaidėjai grybą pjauną, bet tu suprask jie tyčia gi nesistengia sugadint žaidimo, jie iš jo pinigus gauna. Tarptautinės lygos varikliukas nėra keičiamas vidury sezono, todėl tos tavo klaidos ir pasiliks iki sezono galo. Nėra viskas gerai, bet ne aplink mane pasaulis sukasi, kad galeciau viska kontroliuoti. -- 90 賽季 39 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

Nu prie ko mano žaidėjai, prisikabino prie vieno žodžio kuris pakeitė kad aš perku o ne perka ir tipo viskas? Atseit bėdų nėra daugiau? Aš senai nežaidžiu top 16, laimiu dažniau nei pralosiu. Bet tai nereiškia kad gerai yra. Skausminga žiūrėti ta gimdyma po gimdymo, kai retardu žaidimas žodžiu, turiu kamuolį bet nebežinau ką daryti, nes varikliukas nurodė 30 klaidų padaryti ir nemokėti perdavimo atlikti. O jus nors vienas realiai rungtynes esat ziureje? -- 90 賽季 39 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

Iš kur kiekviena ataka 7 blogi perdavimai, tada vienas gerais tada bbz ką daryti nes kaip ir klaidos reikėtų pagal varikliuką. Kodėl jūs ten trys ar keturi nusprendėt kad varikliukas nekeičiamas sezono vidurį? Nors jums visi aiškina nuo pirmos savaitės? -- 90 賽季 39 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

Is kur man zinot ka tu ten parasei. Rasyk kas blogai su zaidimu yra, jei pamatys kad kaskas blogai sutvarkys testiniam varikliuke ir kitam sezone geriau bus. As ziuriu tas rungtynes ir visai neblogai, tik matosi, kad saugikliai kaskokie yra ir viskas. -- 90 賽季 39 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

3.1 3.1 ekstrasensas

Dėl atkarpų čia normalu, kad rezultatas šokinėja tokia seka: +15 šeimininkai, +10 svečiai ir +15 vėl šeimininkai. Ir viskas per pusantro kėlinio??? -- 90 賽季 40 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

2.1 2.1 Šabas

tai net nežiūrėk , galutinį rezultatą kai pasižiūri - tada dar atrodo kentėtina kažkiek, bet kai gyvai žiūri - tai neviltis . Nes anksčiau buvo žaidimas , dabar neaiškios statistikos protokolas ir tiek -- 90 賽季 40 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

3.1 3.1 ekstrasensas

Būtent live stebėjimas ir buvo kažkoks džiaugsmas, dabar ir tas atimta. -- 90 賽季 40 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

ekstrasensas The result may change to the fact one team's bench is much stronger than the other ones. But it is hard to make a specific comment as we do not know what game are we talking about. Runs like that are not coded to the game, they come out from the flow.
For future reference it would help if you:
1. Provide feedback that is in the newest engine version only, which works in NL currently.
2. Share a link to a game.
3. State what does not work correctly and how could it be improved.
Thanks! -- 90 賽季 40 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

Nu pavyzdžiui mano NL žaidimai, 7 rungtynės, kurios rezultatas skyrėsi apie 12 taškų, 6 iš jų, jeigu aš laimiu pirmą kėlinį, kitą laimi priešininkai ir jeigu priešininkai laimi pirmą - aš laimiu kitą kėlinį ir nė karto nebuvo, kad tas pats pirmo kėlinio laimėtojas, laimėtų ir antrą, nebent rungtynių rezultato skirtumas daugiau nei 15 taškų. -- 90 賽季 40 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

3.2 4.7 alale

Nors aš po 13 žaidimo metų jau labai mažai dalyvauju žaidimo tobulinime, bet dabar turiu pasakyti, kad žaidėjų nuovargio reguliavimo treniruočių intensyvumo pagalba yra didelis žaidimo regresesas. Net apribodamas pavargusių žaidėjų laiką iki 12-14 min. negaliu sugrąžinti jiems normalios formos. -- 90 賽季 43 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

zaidziu su 8 zaidejais ir jie zaidzia nemazas minutes. Jokiu problemu su nuovargiu -- 90 賽季 43 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

4.4 5.4 a-ramune

1.3-b.4:
Pick&Roll updates:
- More information added to events
- Additional balancing. Pick&Roll is more effective when the ball handler and screen player can shoot from multiple positions.

Also, starting now, testing match engine will be used in friendly matches as well. -- 90 賽季 52 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

Reikia perziureti nuovargi, kad nebutu perlenkta lazda. Dabar pas mane paskutinese rungtynese zaidejai jau buvo pervarge po 16,17 ir 18 minuciu. Du is ju 30,31 metu ir vienas 26… niekaip neisivaizduoju pervargusio zaidejo per rungtynes jeigu jis per kelini zaidzia po 4 minutes… -- 90 賽季 52 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

2.1 3.1 ulipulido

Hi, someone could please explain me again how tireness work now?
I have 6 main players, playing from 24 to 21 minutes per Game, only 2 players +30 years, normal defender, normal team pace... everything normal most of the matches.
How are 5 players tired or very tired? Since many matches, not right now.
How the hell a profesional player with 26-27 years couldnt play 21-24 minutes par Game? Any explanation please? I played almost the whole season with 9 team squat, and here you have the minutes
Almost 40 seasona playing this Game with a single tired player and this season the whole team. -- 91 賽季 53 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

3.2 4.7 alale

Sveiki Dariau, bet neturėtų ilgalaikis nuovargis žaidėjui tęstis 5 rugtynes iš eilės žaidžiant po 12-14 min. -- 91 賽季 53 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

2.1 3.1 ulipulido

a-darius

a-ramune

dwayne3 Someone could explain why please? -- 91 賽季 54 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

Toyota-bot

Visa si sezona vardinis ventras atsarginis, taktikoje nustatyta po 20 min, ir pervarges. Nezinau ar cia koks wtf, bet kodel jis pervarges? Jaunas 20metu zaidejas, puikios sveikatos. Tokie realybej ir po 25 ir po 30 losia. Cia kazkoks issigimimas . Kad nesakytumet, kad issigalvoju, va sitas zaidejas

https://www.basketpulse.com/lt/Player/2425494/description jau darosi net nebeidomu -- 91 賽季 55 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

Iki TOP16 antro turo losiau su 8 zaidejais ir tik veliau prijungiau prie komandos 2 zaidejus bet visa sezona neturejau ne vieno pavargusio zaidejo. Aisku taktiku ivairove su maza rotacija labai nukencia bet tikrai imanoma islaikyti formas zaidejams. -- 91 賽季 55 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

That's also true for me. I have eight players since G27 as I had no more chances to reach the playoffs.
It needs a bit of effort to keep track of tiredness and definetely limits tactical options but its absolutely possible to keep the players in shape this way. -- 91 賽季 55 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)

顯示隱藏回應: 64

3.2 4.6 Darukas69

Nesamome su tuo nuovargiu, kaip negalima reguliuot treniruociu, atrodo zaidzia po 25min ir visi pervarge, duodi diena pailset, vistiek pervarges...taip po puse sezono jau visi startinio penketo zaidejai buvo pervarge ir sugriove sezona, tenka krist i zemesnes lygas. Anksti baigtas sezonas, daug finansu prarasta. Reikejo 5 laisvu dienu, kad zaidejai atgautu forma, KOSMOSAS -- 91 賽季 55 天

-- (翻譯) (翻譯 EN)